How Do You Get Beef Stock to Thicken?

A side adventure in my beef stock experiment is the quest to make a gelatinous stock.  A good broth is supposed to thicken like jello in the refrigerator, a sign that it contains a significant dose of collagen and gelatin from the bones.

This is an important quality in a stock, especially for our purposes.  The whole basis for our beef stock theory is that foods rich in glucosamine and similar nutrients provide the raw material the body needs to repair connective tissue. Since cellulite is caused by damaged connective tissue, my theory is that a regular diet of nutrient-dense bone broth should help heal cellulite.

But how do I know if my homemade broth is rich in these critical nutrients?

How Long to Cook Bone Broth to Make a Thick Stock?

The first time I made my stock in the slow cooker, I was excited to see how it would turn out after it was chilled overnight in the refrigerator.  I had let it simmer for two days!  That should be plenty of time to sap every last ounce of goodness out of the bones.  I admit, I was disappointed the next day when the stock was still completely liquid.

In her famous traditional foods cookbook, Nourishing Traditions, Sally Fallon recommends cooking the bones for up to 72 hours.  So for my next batch, I let the stock simmer for a full three days.  The bones were like wet sand by the time I was done with them, crumbling in my hand.

The next morning, the stock was a dark and rich in color but it was still a liquid broth rather than a thick gelatinous stock.

If I Reduce the Stock, Will It Thicken?

The next “fix” I tried was to reduce the stock by evaporating a significant portion of the water.  It makes sense that too much water could prevent the gelatin from thickening.  Cooks often reduce stock, especially if it is destined for the freezer. It requires less space that way.

I reduced the stock by over 75 percent, returned it to the refrigerator, and STILL the stock did not thicken.  It certainly tasted rich, but it simply would not gel.

Adding Veal Bones to Thicken Stock

Then I read this article about beef stock at SimplyRecipes.com.  The author suggests adding a few veal bones to provide gelatin.  Apparently, young cow bones contain more gelatin and thus they make for a thicker stock.

(Notice how she says that she first started making beef stock because her “Chinese doctor” told her to make soup from scratch for her health.  His exact words were: “Get beef bones and boil them.”)

When I read this article, I happened to have a batch of stock simmering (as I often do these days) and a leftover bone from the veal chop I ate for dinner.  I tossed it in the pot and let it simmer for a day or two.  But I was defeated again.  The stock did not gel.

Adding Gelatin to Thicken Stock

In the Nourishing Traditions cookbook, Sally Fallon suggests adding a small amount of powdered gelatin directly to the stock.  She recommends Bernard Jensen Gelatin because it is made from cows that are all or mostly grass-fed.

For the last few days, I’ve been adding a spoonful of gelatin to my morning beef stock.  As expected, it now gels beautifully.

Does the Temperature of the Stock Matter?

But I am still curious why my beef stock will not gel on its own.  This morning, I might have discovered a clue to the mystery.

I took a new jar of beef stock out of the freezer last night.  It did not completely thaw before I went to heat it up for my breakfast soup this morning.  The edges were thawed enough to easily pour a serving into the pot, but there was a solid chunk of frozen stock in the center.  The strange thing was that the thawed stock around the edge of the jar was a thick gel, not a runny liquid like it is when the whole jar is thawed.

Could it be that the entire stock would gel if my refrigerator was set at a colder temperature? I currently have it set at 3 (9 is the coldest). Do you have any secrets for creating a thick stock?

*This post is part of Fight Back Friday hosted at FoodRenegade and Works for Me Wednesday hosted at We Are THAT Family.

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Comments

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ML says:
3/30/2011

Thank you for sharing all your experiences in searching for a ‘cure’ for cellulite! I enjoy reading about your adventures and since learning how you are making broth I’ve decided to plunge in and start making my own again. I usually put in veal bones as well.

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I’m honored to have helped inspired your renewed interest in homemade broth, ML. Please let us know how it goes!

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Jo at Jo’s Health Corner says:
3/31/2011

I found it interesting as well to follow your journey. My best bone broth ever was the one I made when we lived in Sweden. We bought half a grass feed cow from our neighbor, the farmer..

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Emma says:
4/1/2011

I’ve been having the same problem! I can get my chicken broth to gel, but not my beef broth. I heard that using parts of the skull helps, but we were told that it is not legal to sell skull in TX. Also, my broth comes out white-ish (not clear, but creamy white). It tastes great, but it’s not the rich brown you would expect from broth. Not sure why…

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Do you remove the fat after it cools? For mine, the fat is a creamy white color but the broth is brown.

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Kelsey says:
4/4/2011

Are you using knuckle bones? I think you might need those to get cartilage.

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Yes, I have been using knuckle bones. Is it possible I am not using enough of them? I’ve been adding one package of knuckle bones and then another package of beef marrow bones. It’s about 2 pounds total for the 5 quart crock pot.

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Kelsey says:
4/7/2011

You’ve got me, then. I make chicken broth almost exclusively, but tried beef broth a few weeks ago with a couple of knuckle bones and it was a very jelly broth. There must be another reason, but I don’t know what it is. I have fairly hard water and I always add about a tablespoon of apple cider vinegar.

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I use vinegar, too. And my well water is on the hard side. It must be the bones, right? Maybe I’m not using enough or the right kind. I am going to ask my butcher about this. Thanks for the advice, Kelsey!

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Fernando Yanes says:
2/13/2017

Hi Melissa, I just read your post, I was looking information for gelatin on beef stock, specifically trying to reduce the amount of beef bones per 5lts.. that I’m use to cook, I always get a nice dark brown color broth with thick gelatin after refrigerating. I have done different tests and came to this recipe.
3kg. (6.6 pounds) of Osso Bucco (marrow bones with meat) to 5 lts. of water (5quarts = 4.75lts) for 10 hr simmering. Before simmering I Place the beef in a pan suspended on rack, pour 2 or 3 mm of water inside pan and Roast until very dark color, then throw everything on pot including juices from pan.

Just this weekend I tried with same recipe but 7 lts of water and simmer for 12 hr and got no gelatin, then reduced to 5lts and got a beautiful gelatin the next morning after refrig..

Im still looking for not so expensive recipe with same results, but I dont want to use chicken or other additives to get the jello.

I just realize you post is way back and maybe you have already figure out a better recipe.

Hope this will help..

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Peter says:
5/10/2011

Hi

It doesn’t matter if the stock gels or not, because the gelatin are still there. However, you may get your stock to gel anyway if you remember to cool the stock very fast after boiling. If the cooling process is slow, the stock does not always gel. Also, you have to use knuckle bones, joints, and legs/hooves in particular for gelatin.

One error in your article is that stock contains collagen and gelatin, since gelatin are hydrolyzed/cooked collagen, that is, collagen and gelatin are one and the same thing. Stock do also contain a lot of minerals as well as glucoaminoglycans, chondroitin sulfate and more, but gelatin are the most valuable from a health perspective because of the very large amounts of amino acids, in particular glycine and proline that rebuilds collagen in your entire body, your intestines and teeth included. Glycine are also used by the liver to detoxify itself from a lot of chemicals and poisons, and it stop any kind of inflammation in the body, the underlying cause of most diseases of today. Glycine in dosages 5- 12 grams (from several research tests), which is found in 2,5 to 5 tablespoons of gelatin, do stimulate production and release of growth hormone, which are a good thing for your entire body, collagen and skin included.

In one of your articles you mention pain in your arms and legs after starting to use stock each day. That was my own experience when I started to use stock or gelatin every day. I had pain first in one shoulder, then the other, and then one of my knees, then the other and so on for several weeks. I woke up with pain too, and all the time it was like the pain was inside my bones, not around them or in the muscles. When the pain went away, it left me with stronger and more flexible bones and joints, and the process was just the body replacing old cells with new ones from the stock through inflammation, which is a natural and useful thing. This process is called healing crisis in natural medicine, and use to happen if your body gets to much nutrients to use to replace worn out cells and tissues. Most of my clients report similar experiences when starting to use stock or gelatin each day.

About stock and gelatin for cellulite, and scientific proof that it actually works, read the book Deep Nutrition by Catherine Shanahan, pages 252 and 268 in the chapter on stock/broth.

Here’s some links to info for you and your readers –

http://www.westonaprice.org/food-features/515-broth-is-beautiful.html
http://www.westonaprice.org/food-features/513-why-broth-is-beautiful.html
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/gelatin.shtml
http://augmentinforce.50webs.com/Gelatin.htm
http://www.townsendletter.com/FebMarch2005/broth0205.htm
http://pathways4health.org/2010/02/05/february-2010-investing-in-stocks/

Have fun 🙂

Peter

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Yes, Peter, that is exactly what the ache in my bones felt like when I started drinking stock each day. I did not know the trick about cooling it quickly. This last batch I finally got to gel. I had to use a different source for the knuckle bones. They were from local cattle, but they were grain-finished cattle not certified organic, either. I am wondering if they contain fluoride because my skin is breaking out. It’s hard to tell if it’s a detox reaction or from fluoride itself. Next time I am going to find bones that I know are from organic, pastured cattle and see what happens.

Thanks for all the great info, Peter! I have read Deep Nutrition (loved it!) and her theories make sense, but she doesn’t seem to have tested them out to see if they actually improve cellulite. I like that Dr. Murad’s patients saw clear improvement in their cellulite after he prescribed glucosamine supplements. I prefer food-based nutrients over supplements, but it is still important information to add to our investigation.

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Ann Marie @ CHEESESLAVE says:
6/29/2011

Wow, what a fascinating comment, Peter! Thank you for all that great information.

I just read Deep Nutrition over the weekend and I’m so excited I decided to do a Bone Broth Challenge over at my blog.

Melissa, would you be willing to write a guest post sometime this month for me, as part of the challenge? Something about bone broth and cellulite?

Also, hopefully you will join the challenge! I’ll be announcing it on Friday… and I’m going to post a teaser announcement today as well.

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A bone broth challenge, that sounds perfect! I am excited to be a part of it! I’ll get to work on that guest post. Thanks for thinking of me, Ann Marie!

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Justin Cascio says:
11/17/2011

I think I’ve got the answer, and it explains why we have easier times getting chicken stock that gels than we do making beef stock. Collagen is richest in the fibrous tissues, less so in the bones, so what you need are meaty bones that still have plenty of gristle on them. If your bones are too clean, like mine were for a recent batch of beef stock, then your stock won’t gel once refrigerated, no matter how cold it’s set. Getting good trimmings is difficult, which is probably why the most recent advice I’ve seen in Cooks’ Illustrated is to add ground beef to the stock mix.

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Your explanation makes a lot of sense, Justin! The bones I was using still had some meat on them, but not a lot. With chicken stock, there’s all the ligaments and joints that probably go a long way in getting the stock to gel. But do you think ground meat would help? If it contained collagen, then why not just eat the meat instead of bothering with stock? I read that adding a few veal bones is supposed to help beef stock gel. Have you heard anything about that? Thanks for your commentary on this!

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Justin Cascio says:
11/17/2011

As you know from reading Nourishing Traditions, stocks were a way to make use of what could not be otherwise eaten. The tough ligaments, cartilage, and other connective tissues were not “good eating” so they’d go into the pot with the bones. If you roast the bones first, the marrow is a good food and can be scraped out of the bones and eaten on toast points. Many people will not bother with this, either, and throw the roasted bone, marrow and all, into the stock: I do this. If you value good stock, and have no access to the kinds of meaty bones you need for good quality stock, then you might spend some money on ground beef just to use in stock. A more economical way to do it is to find that source on connective tissue, or only buy bone-in steaks and roasts, and carefully save trimmings in the freezer until enough has been saved to make a pot of stock.

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Thanks for your response, Justin. I guess my question is whether ground beef alone would help a stock to gel if the bones don’t contain any other connective tissue? Wouldn’t it have to contain some kind of tendons or ligaments? I had an amazing bowl of pho not long ago and it contained beef tendon, like a thick, chewable jello. I imagine something like that would cause a stock to gel quite well.

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Justin Cascio says:
11/21/2011

It appears to work with ground beef, at least when the test kitchens at Cooks’ Illustrated tried it. The magazine recommends adding ground beef to make a quick stock. I can’t lay my hands on it now, but there was a recipe that appeared not too long ago that might not have even had any bones in it, just ground beef. The collagen is found in all kinds of tissue. I am guessing it’s hard to extract from bone, though the minerals may come out fine.

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Interesting. I know a splash of vinegar is supposed to help draw the minerals from the bones, too. I tried to look up the recipe on their site but it looks like you have to pay to access it. Oh well! Did you read Brad’s comment about baking stock in the oven??? I gotta try that!

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brad says:
11/25/2011

I was looking this up tonight just out of boredom. When I first started making stock, I had the opposite problem. I was freaked out because I had to spoon it out like jelly. I found out soon after that, that is what you want. I’ve never had any trouble at all getting a gelatinous stock.

I cook my stocks in the oven. Just pour enough water to cover the bones by about an inch or so, and cook at 190F overnight. Then add the aromatics/veg in the morning, and pop it back in the oven for about an hour or so.

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I never thought of cooking stock in the stove! But it would probably be a lot like using a slow cooker. Do you heat it on the burner first to bring it to a boil? Also, what kind of bones are you using that it gels so easily? Thanks for sharing your tips with us, Brad!

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brad says:
11/25/2011

I generally like to use oxtail, shank, and marrow bones, or any combination of that and whatever I have frozen from roasts and whatnot. Oxtail is loaded with connective tissue that renders down pretty well, and has a wonderfully beefy flavor.

Also, shank and oxtail will have a good deal of fat, so you will get some really rich tallow on top after cooling the stock. Don’t throw that away!! save it for cooking. It’s delicious used in place of butter as the fat component in savory dishes, or as the fat when making a roux for gravy.

As for the crock pot, mine is either HIGH, LOW, or OFF. It’s not the right temperature. I recently saw a twitter exchange where both Michael Ruhlman and Alton Brown also advised against the slow cookers for the same reason. They’re just too hot.

Michael Ruhlman, in his book Ratio, recommends a temperature of 180 degrees for stocks. The reason behind it is that “This temperature extracts flavors without emulsifying fat and other impurities into the stock”. In his book Twenty, he goes on to say “If a stock is hot enough to simmer, fat will emulsify into the water, and the stock will be cloudy, and have a cloudy flavor”

Harold McGee Has this to say in his book On Food and Cooking. “The meat solids are started in an uncovered pot of cold water that the cook brings slowly to a simmer and keeps there…The cold start and slow heating allow the proteins to escape the solids and coagulate slowly” That makes them easy to skim off or strain out. A hot start produces many small particulates that remain suspended in the stock, and a churning boil will emulsify the fats into the stock making it cloudy.

McGee also recommends blanching the bones and rinsing first, but that seems a little unnecessary for the home cook.

Whew!! I didn’t realize I was going to type that much, or do research lol. I really recommend both of the authors I quoted. Everyone should have a copy of On Food and Cooking on the shelf, and Ruhlman’s “anti-cook books” Ratio and Twenty are fantastic books full of techniques and measurements. His blog is also very good.

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You’ve opened my eyes to a whole new way of cooking stock! I just ordered Ruhlman’s book, Ratio. I cook all my meals at home, but my cooking skills are completely basic. I generally don’t use recipes so this book sounds perfect for learning more about the theories behind what makes for good dishes. I probably need to use more meaty bones in my stock, too. I’ve seen oxtail at the store. Gotta try it.

Thanks again for the book recommendations. I’ve been introduced to some outstanding books through comments people have generously offered on the site. I have a feeling these will be no different!

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dan says:
12/1/2011

i just read on the keepers of home website about how he got his stock to gel up he said to put bones into pot with some cider vinegar and let sit for a hour in the water and then simmer the bones and it well thicken into gelliaten .thanks dan

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dan says:
12/1/2011

hi i just made some beef bone soup today and just to make ya happy it hasnt gelled up yet i did leave it sit in refrig and i then skim the fat off later on so one of these days i am gonna try what i wrote to u before this . making soup is so easy thanks danny

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That doesn’t make me happy, Dan! I don’t wish for a runny stock for anyone. 😉 i do add vinegar in the pot beforehand. I’ve been using coconut vinegar but sometimes I use ACV. I think my problem has something to do with the amount of bones I’m adding in proportion to the water, the amount of connective tissue left on the bones, and the temperature the stock is cooking and cooling at. If I could just get those things sorted out, I’m sure I’d be making a perfectly thick stock every time! Thanks for your comment, Dan. You’re right–making soup is easy!

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Peggy says:
12/1/2011

Hi! I just happened to come across this thread tonight and wanted to let you know what I’ve found when making oxtail soup. It gels like crazy but I’ve found you have to cook it on the stovetop for like 5 hours. I’ve tried it twice in the slow cooker for 8 or 12 hours. First time was 8 hours on low. Did not work, cooked on stovetop for additional 5 hours and it gelled. Second time was 12 hours in slow cooker on high. Did not gel, finished on stovetop for three hours and it gelled but it was thicker and richer tasting the first time with the 5 hour stovetop. I guess you need the higher heat and the right kind of bone/meat material.

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Thanks for the info, Peggy. Interesting experiment! So are you saying the slow cooker was too low even when it was on high? In his comment above, Brad quotes Michael Ruhlman when he recommends 180 as the ideal temperature for stock. He suggests crock pots are too hot. According to this website, low is the equivalent of 200 while high is about 300. How high did you cook it on the stove? Thanks for any additional info you can provide!

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Donna says:
1/1/2012

I just made stock for the first time using leftover bones from the lamb hind quarters we made for Christmas dinner. Everything that was left in the pan (after all the meat was trimmed off) plus extra water to cover the bones was boiled for about 30 minutes and then I turned it down to a low simmer for about 12 hours. I then strained with a mesh strainer, and then again with a finer mesh strainer. I put it outside (35-40F) to cool as I had no room in the refrigerator. Next morning, I had lamb jello. Now, what to use all this stock for?? How strong will the lamb flavor be when I use it to make other soups?

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Good for you, Donna! I’m so impressed with your lamb jello! Did the bones have a lot of meat and/or connective tissue on them? I never exactly figured out why my lamb stock didn’t gel. Although I made turkey stock over Christmas and it gelled beautifully. I’m not fancy in the kitchen, so I usually use stock for a humble soup with a few veggies, onions, or shredded meat. You could use it for anything, though –to cook rice, to add flavor to mashed potatoes.. I’m sure Google has much more creative ideas than I do. Please let us know if you find anything good (and easy!).

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Donna says:
1/5/2012

I guess that you could say there was quite a bit of meat left on the bones, we cut off most of the meat, but the stuff that was hard to get we left on. Literally everything that was left in the pan after roasting the lamb went into the pot, so some of the thick skin went in too. It was a full hind quarter of lamb, so there were two nice “marrow” bones, and some vertebrae bones as well. I’ve never made stock before, so I was quite surprised to see that it gelled up like it did. Still looking for some good recipes, will let you know if I find anything good.

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No wonder it gelled so nicely! You used the best parts for stock! My bones are always “bone dry,” so to speak and I probably don’t use enough of them.

How about this simple recipe for turning the stock into a tasty sauce? http://hartkeisonline.com/whole-and-natural-foods/lamb-beef-stock-reduction-sauce-recipe/

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Marisol says:
1/7/2012

I made beef stock and it gelled really nice! I placed 2 pounds of organic grass feed bones in a big crockpot, There was a lot of marrow in them, filled up with water and splash of vinegar. Cooked for about 50 hours. I let it cool down in the pot, actually I turned off at 11 in the evening and putted away in the morning. At this moment it was still really liquid, placed In the refriregetor for 2 hours and I took out the fat on top, still liquid. I poured it in several containers, for individual consume. Tonight I took my portion for today and it was a super thick gel! . I was just wandering if the fat does not allow the stock to gel

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Good work, Mirasol! That’s really interesting that it didn’t gel until after you put it in smaller containers. I noticed that once, too. I’m thinking Peter is right in that it doesn’t matter if the stock doesn’t gel. This shows the good stuff is still in there, especially if you are using the right bones which you obviously did!

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Rrrvin says:
3/4/2012

I recently did an experiment with two kinds of beef bones for pho stock. I used beef neck bones in one and oxtail in the other. I treated both exactly the same, par boiled and rinsed both sets of bones then simmered for 8 hours with vegetables and seasonings. (Those of you going over 10 hours are not getting anything else out of your stock really, 50 and 72 hours is just a waste of fuel). Both stocks tasted about the same but the oxtail stock had noticeably more mouthfeel and the next day a lot more gelatine. I’m sure the answer is in the connective tissue as many here have suggested.

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Thanks, Rrrvin! This experiment is telling!

How do you know you aren’t getting any more nutrients out of the stock after 10 hours? Just curious (that’s how I am ;)).

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Rrrvin says:
3/10/2012

Well Melissa, the bad news is that you are actually losing nutrients by cooking it longer. Vitamins and most minerals are destroyed by extensive cooking. The sweet spot for nutrient retention is about an hour or two at most. My experiment was for flavor and gel extraction. I found that the difference in flavor of cooking a stock from 6-8 hours was significant but from 8-10 hours was not. After that amount of time you are not getting any real flavor benefit ( and you’re breaking down nutrients).
If you want more nutrients in your stock you should add stuff at the end of the cooking time. For example, after cooking your bones down to make a nice stock, add some fresh meat, herbs, spinach or the like for the last half an hour or so to boost the nutrients.

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Thanks for the added info, Rrrvin. The nutrients I’m interested in are glucosamine, gelatin… things like that. Are you saying there is research that suggests they are destroyed by extended cooking at low heat (I use a slow cooker set on low)?

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Received this from Rrrvin via email. The quest continues…

I cannot speak specifically about those elements. In general, longer cook times do damage nutrients but it may not always be the case. Your specific interests are beyond my realm of knowledge. Do keep me informed of what your research turns up.

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Jobert says:
4/23/2012

NT says that these nutrients are NOT damaged by long cooking times. If you’re making vegetable stock, yes. Those vitamins are damaged by heat. But not the minerals in animal bone-based stocks and broths.

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Jobert says:
4/23/2012

I think you’re cooking it too long, even though Nourishing Traditions says to do that. Don’t add anything else to it. Traditional people didn’t buy gelatin in a store to fix up their stock, and neither should we.

I made beef stock over the weekend using Nourishing Traditions as a guide. Here is what I did:

I put about 5 marrow bones, 1 meaty soup bone, 1 knuckle bone, and about 4 chunks of oxtail in cold filtered water with 2 tablespoons of apple cider vinegar for an hour. I forgot that I was supposed to brown them in the oven first, so I removed them from the water, patted them dry, and put them in a glass roasting dish in the oven at 400F for about 20 minutes, turning them halfway through. They didn’t get really brown, but a little bit. It was good enough for me–it’s all for flavor, anyway. Then I put all the bones and meat back into the same pot of vinegar water, added in some frozen organic carrot chunks and scraps and some onions and black peppercorns and a bay leaf.

I brought it to a boil, skimmed the scum off the top, and let it simmer. It was on a simmer by about 5pm. I let it simmer all night. Around 11am the next day, I noticed that the broth looked very nice and clear (not cloudy) and that the onions floating on the surface were getting blackened and wrinkly where they were out of the water. I decided to just take it off the stove and call in done. In the past, I had simmered it a long time like they recommend, but it never gelled.

Well, I strained it and put it in the fridge, and this morning I was thrilled to see that there is some lovely tallow on the top that I can remove and save, and that underneath is a beautiful, solid gel. The bones were not crumbly, and I contemplated putting them back in the pot with more water to see what would happen, but I was too lazy.

I will just be making stock for a shorter time period from now on. 20 hours or so should do it for beef bones, IMO.

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Jobert, this is fascinating! Thanks for sharing! Who would have thought that cooking it less would increase the chances the stock would gel. I’m curious to know if this theory continues to hold true the more you test it out. Did you always use the same amount and type of bones in the same ratio of water? I think I was being too stingy with the bones I was using, too.

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Micheline says:
8/4/2012

I realize I’m coming to this convo VERY late in the game but the one thing I would suggest (if you can get to an Asian meat market) is but a pound or two of beef tendon. It’s basically pure collagen and will gel your rock very nicely well before the 12 hour mark.
Plus theyre also very tasty to eat as well as good or you.

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Micheline says:
8/4/2012

I meant gel your stock…lol

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